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Mayor says ‘Best schools, worst roads in Oklahoma’

By Roger Pugh
publisher@piedmontnewsonline.com

“There are two things I think of when I think of Piedmont,” Mayor Valerie Thomerson told the Piedmont Chamber of Commerce last week while discussing the upcoming $6 million bond issue election to improve several major roads in the community.

“First, Piedmont has some of the best schools in the state. Second, Piedmont has some of the worst roads,” she told the audience.

She said Piedmont people came together to make sure the community had the best schools.

“I don’t have kids in our schools, but I pay a lot for schools, and I’m proud of the school system,” she noted.

Her message seemed to imply that if Piedmont residents want improved local roads, the community must come together to approve the bond issue like she sees it comes together to make the school district an outstanding district. Another undertone seemed to be that it will require those who do not often utilize the roads proposed to be improved to also support the bond issue if Piedmont is to ever get on top of local road repair.

Piedmont City Manager Jim Crosby told the audience every community survey showed that people want the roads fixed.

He noted that on most local roads, the drainage is poor, bar ditches have been filled in or are otherwise gone.
“We will fix the roads properly,” he promised if the bond issue is approved.

He detailed some of the construction standards to be utilized, including adequate drainage and bar ditches, a properly prepared base, and five and one-half inch crowned overlay.

Seven stretches of roads in Piedmont are proposed to be repaired. If those streets can be fixed for less than the engineer’s estimates, more streets will be added to the repair list. Many of the streets on the repair list are on school routes or by a school.

He also said one hundred percent of the money from the bond issue will go to improving Piedmont streets.

Rick Smith, the Bond Advisor hired by the city for the issue, said the issue, if approved, will be divided into two pieces. He said $3 million of the bonds will be sold upon approval, and another $3 million will be sold a year later. Each of those two issues will be on a 10-year payout from the date of issue.

Smith explained state law does not allow for any of the property tax to go to cities, except when citizens of that city approve a bond issue.

He noted that the net assessed valuation of all property in Piedmont city limits has historically increased by six to seven percent per year.

However, to be conservative, the projections for what the tax impact would be on local property owners is based on valuation only going up by three percent per year.

Smith also said that the actual cost of the bond issue will be determined by the interest rate the city will have to pay on the bonds.

He said projections for this issue are based on a 2.5 percent interest rate, which he said was a highly conservative estimate.

Smith told the audience figures from the county assessor’s office show the median value for a home in Piedmont city limits is $165,000.

In other words, half the homes in Piedmont are valued at under $165,000 and half are valued over $165,000.
For a home valued at $165,000, the average annual property tax increase for the life of the bond issue is projected to be $263.32, or $21.94 per month.

The impact will be slightly higher the first few years of the issue and will be slightly lower the final few years.

Smith said the city engineer has designed all of the roads proposed to be improved to have a 20 year life span under normal traffic conditions.

73 Comments

  1. JT says:

    Here is a link to information about the bond isssue the city put up on it’s website
    http://www.piedmont-ok.gov/gobond/gobond.zip

    An article by Woods is also included with that information. Didn’t see that article in the Citizen, I don’t get the Gazette. In Woods’ article, the total estimated amount for the roads that are listed on the ballot is only $3.45 million. It’s a $6 million bond. Where is the other $2.55 million ? Contingency, engineering fees, other fees? Seems highly conservative. He mentions that 164th, Sara and Mustang may be included if money permits, but they are by no means a sure thing. According to his article they won’t even be listed on the ballot.

    The powerpoint presentation that the city manager sent me made no such distinction on 164th, Mustang and Sara. Interesting that these 3 roads all are in Ward 4. I wonder who is right.

    • Vernon Woods says:

      I did not post anything on the gobond site you talk about. Spend a buck and buy the Gazette for the complete story before your paranoia gets out of hand again.

      • JT says:

        Vernon you don’t know what you are talking about. I’m not paranoid about anything. Perhaps you should keep better track of who you send you articles to.

        http://www.piedmont-ok.gov/gobond/gobond.zip

        WHAT WILL BE DONE WITH YOUR BOND MONEY?
        By Ward 2 Councilman Vernon Woods
        On Tuesday, April 2nd, 2013, the City of Piedmont will seek approval from our residents to issue a six million dollar General Obligation Bond (GOB) for the purpose of reconstructing portions of at least seven major streets within our city limits. My previous article described the mechanisms involved in offering and passing a bond, in addition to the required legal procedures which must be adhered to if the bond is approved. This article will describe how the bond funds would be expended and which streets are committed to be reconstructed.

        The ballot will specifically list 7 sections of streets which will be reconstructed with the bond funds. Those streets are listed below.
        Description of Project and
        Estimated Cost
        Washington west from Piedmont Road to Candice – $670,000
        Ash east from Piedmont Road to Mustang Road – $785,000
        Stout Drive north from Monroe to Edmond Road – $630,000
        Edmond Road west from Stout Drive to the million gallon water storage tower – $260,000
        Moffat west from Piedmont Road to High Meadows Drive – $710,000
        Arrowhead west from Piedmont Road ½ mile – $395,000
        Washington is also 7th. Ash is also 220th. Stout is also 7th. Arrowhead is also 192nd.

        • JT says:

          ——–Article Continues————————

          The estimated costs associated with each project are just that – estimates only. In addition, the estimates are hopefully on the high side. If the bond is approved, formal bids for each project will be requested from road contractors. After those bids have been received and evaluated, a more exact cost will be known, and construction will then commence.
          It is hoped that the actual costs of reconstruction will be low enough that other streets may be added to the project list. While this list should not be considered in any way as a commitment by the City, at this time, possible inclusions are Sara between Arrowhead and Edmond, Washington between Sara and County Line, and Mustang for ½ mile south of Edmond.
          It is intended that the reconstruction of the streets will be performed utilizing the highest quality of materials, engineering, and construction techniques, which will ensure a minimum of a 20 year life. The components of the reconstruction will include ensuring drainage bar ditches are adequate, replacing all defective bridges and tinhorns, creating a solid road base, and topping the surface with a minimum of 5 inches of asphalt.

          • JT says:

            Vernon I guess you forgot what you wrote? Because you DID write this:

            It is hoped that the actual costs of reconstruction will be low enough that other streets may be added to the project list. While this list should not be considered in any way as a commitment by the City, at this time, possible inclusions are Sara between Arrowhead and Edmond, Washington between Sara and County Line, and Mustang for ½ mile south of Edmond.

            Now tell me where I’m wrong sir.

        • Vernon Woods says:

          One last time – I did not post anything on that website – what was posted, by someone else, contains incorrect information. I never saw it until your rant informed me of it. I have requested that a correction be made. As I stated above, the correct information is contained in the Gazette.

          • JT says:

            So I am to believe someone wrote an article using your name? Or did you make a mistake in your original article and now you won’t own up to it? Which is it?

          • JT says:

            I finally got a copy of the Gazette and read your updated article. I was wrong about 1 mile of Washington street. It is on the ballot. I admitted my mistake. Can you be a man and admit yours? Or will you insist that someone else used your name and wrote an almost identical article to yours and gave it to city staff? Why is it so hard to admit you made a mistake in your original article and corrected it for the newspaper, but city staff didn’t put the corrected version up?

        • Darrel Booth says:

          As one who has lived in Piedmont since 1976 I have seen the city grow and yes, the roads have gotten some what better in those years. As I read some of the other remarks it would appear that my ward councilman cannot handle critisim but that is not anything new. One particular instance occurred one morning at the daily meeting of the “old geezers” meeting at Hubbards Farm Store whereby something waas said critical and Woods broke wide open and used language that would make the average sailor and/or Marine blush or maybe even throw up.

          In Woods explanation on where the road money is to be spent, if issue is passed, he fails to identify that one of the projects (Arrowhead 1/2 mile) is to provide him with a road that ends just past his house. Also to be fair, 164 from Sara to Count6y Line just happens to pass just in front of another councilmans’ house. Wonder who else of the governing body, or a good friend of those who serve the city, are going to see their access strongly improved.

          I have driven many of these road and then some that are in much worse shape than 192/Arrowhead yet Woods is so selfess as to think he is entitled if the bond issue passes. I ask you to consider joining me and many others who will vote NO on April 2.

      • JT says:

        Vernon I would email it to you, but you are the ONLY city councilman that doesn’t have an email address listed on the city’s website.

        • john says:

          JT, I know Vernon has no problem speaking his mind or stating his position, but with my reading the gobond web site it appears that excerpts of Vernons article was lifted and comingled with content he did not write. You may want to check with the webmaster who has control of the content.

  2. Charles Coffman says:

    The city voted for 10 roads. We only listed out 7 on the ballet in the event there are cost over runs. It comes to $6M total for the 10. The city will not play with the money, it is held for us and doled out as needed on the contracts. We will do those 10 roads on the list. In the event our high estimates come in lower, the remaining funds will go for other roads, nothing else. Sorry for the confusion. If you wonder why this 7 were placed on the ballet it was so we could show there are roads city wide on the list. Those other 3 are no less important than the 7. Good questions.

    • JT says:

      The way the ballot is written, there are no streets in Ward 4 that are a sure thing. In fact ALL the streets in Ward 4 were left off the ballot. How is that city wide?

      • Charles Coffman says:

        164th from Sara to Morgan is listed and is in Ward 4. 164th from Morgan to County line are on the list we voted for, as is Sara from Edmond to Arrowhead but we do need to take care that we do not promise in the event of a huge cost over run. We estimated high, so i am confident. Mustang from 164th to Edmond also borders ward 4. Full disclosure… While ward 4 has a huge segment of the population I agreed to having roads from all wards listed in the bond language ( the 7) so the citizens would see road’s from all parts of the city. That means that some of the remaining 3 do have some risk if the contracts come in high. We estimated high so I am confident. If I am proven wrong and we only get 9 of the roads then I will wonder if that was a mistake. But, I still feel we needed to show that each area had some work proposed.

        • Darrel Booth says:

          I see you took care of the one that run in front of your house.

          • Charles Coffman says:

            I drive the ward 4 roads weekly and call in problems. I called in Sara between 164th and Edmond 2 weeks ago but the crews are up on Waterloo. 164th s a major road and school route and I make no apologies for keeping it patched. But no, it does not get preference in ward 4. We are all unhappy about the roads but I put blood and treasure toward doing something about it.

  3. Al Ridgely says:

    To Everyone who reads the paper,first there is no such road as a 20 year road,Period,ask anyone who has worked in roads,second the roads that are on the list were picked by your city councilmen,so who benefits from these choices,not many,ask why no road studies were done before these were,the plan is flawed in so many ways that I have written about in the past.This issue has been a problem for as long as I have lived here and now it is being looked at,but without a plan that will move to improve the most important roads,just roads that are important to a few,look at the maps and see for yourself,drive them and think about how we will maintain them,look at the history of our town and see that nothing has been done and there is no plan to improve street maintance,so even if we do roads they will fail fast and the money will be another waste as in the past. also where will any money come from to do other roads?,I was told recently by one citzen that people who live around these roads were not interested in anyone else,I think what he said was maybe we’d get some road work outside the 2 mile radius of city hall in maybe 15 years,and that the people in town don’t care about those of us who live out in the country,well I see this as another case as in the past of we don’t count for anything other that to pay for their welfare. Also there has been little to no real meetings on this issue,Why?,well is it because as in the past they don’t want to be open and honest about how everyone feels about this as usual.If this pass’s we will be over-taxed again for something that doesn’t benefi us.PLEASE VOTE NO and make the leaders answer to all of us not just a few. Al Ridgely

  4. Charles Coffman says:

    We will present a road maintenance plan at the next council meeting and will discuss at the public ward meetings on the 26th, 27th, and 28th at 6:30 at the municipal building. 164th from Sara to County line are more than 2 miles outside the city center, as is Sara from Edmond to Arrowhead. Nearly half the city is serviced by those roads. Even if the citizens living on a road do not care about anyone else, the council is supposed to care. That is why we included roads from all wards even though some where not in the most populated areas. The maintenance plan is the beginning to reshape the way we think about roads. The bond is a key to this. I must say that Al has been right that we needed to think about maintenance and this is our start. The term 20 year road is the engineering reference meaning it is done right, and can be maintained. Chip and peel that we have now is around 3-5 year if drainage is done right.

  5. Al Ridgely says:

    Well here we go again,we need to think about a maintance dept?,that should have been first on the list of thing’s that need to be done before we fix roads as we will not be able as in the past to maintain the new or the old,it seems that the planning is backwards of the needs as usual,we only have right now 3 people on the public works crew to service our town,WHY?,well we haven’t been working on hiring good people for one and we don’t pay those we have enough,so we will fix some roads and then they will fall apart like every other onr that has been done,as usual,no full time street dept,so we will throw good money after bad as usual. I truely hope that people look at the map and see what a fool-hardy plan that the city wants to do and vote it down,I’m amazed that so many people don’t even know about the bond and the imformation that should have been availible month’s ago will be made public in less than one week from the election. This show’s the thought and planning that has been the usual for years here and as alway’s the bond only benefits certain people,but all will pay.Fair,I don’t think so.I believe that the bond should be veto’ed and a new plan started,one that makes sense and benefits more people,also,fixing a few roads scatteredall over town does not work in everyones favor,nor does it benefit the people who are paying for nothing,think about how much you will be paying for the next 10 years with no hope of keeping the roads you have up(where will that money come from) and it will cause us to not do any roads for that time as we will still be paying for the bond,I think that 13% raise in property tax so more than most people can or are willing to spend for this.I know of 2 councilmen who have said that they don’t think this is a good plan,let’s see if it comes out at the meetings.
    I for one am tired of hearing what they plan to do and never seeing any action,which speaks louder than words.As for which councilmen live on the roads that are one the list,that would be Coffman,Woods and Robinson,and again 164th was going to be done whether the bond pass’s or not,if Councilman Woods had not bulldozed this into the bond for whatever reason there may have been other roads repair,What’s his agenda?,other than his our interest’s.I will attend all the meetings so I can hear for myself what line of B.S. we will get from them. Al Ridgely

  6. Al Ridgely says:

    As a second thought,since the street dept doesn’t exist,why?we have enough work for a lest 4 men to work every day all day just on repair and drainage,That is a fact that has been over-looked and since this is the main reason our roads are failing what will the city do in the coming months to solve this,so far we have heard talk,I haven’t seen one ad for help anywhere,WHY?<it's not important to the city goverment,instead we hire cops,fireman and city staff,who is going to take positive action on this,or is this going to be as alway's just talkWe pay more than enough for very little in the way of service,our city tax is the highest in the state and we pay for other thing's that are pie in the sky projects,so roads are on the bottom of the list and up-keep is even lower,I say LESS TO AND MORE ACTION,until then Vote NO.Al Ridgely

    • Charles Coffman says:

      Our taxes are not the highest in the state or even in our surrounding area. I know you are not happy with the police building and that we have a full police and fire department. All I can say is that it is OK to say you don’t want your taxes to go up to pay for roads in the southern portion of the city. It is not correct to say that the council (most of them new) are responsible for the things you are unhappy with, or are doing roads around their homes. It is OK to be for or against any measure or have a different approach to fixing a problem. I do not see a lot of options here and do see how fixing these key arterial roads can be a huge step in fixing a long term problem.

  7. Darrel Booth says:

    And while on the subject of road maintenance or lack thereof, what has the $1.00 additional assessment passed by the council several years (at least 18 years ago) been used for? During this time there has been little or no work provided on the drainage as it was said that it would be used. Drive around and you will see that even the chip and seal treatment on the roads has been slip shod and if you speak to some of the long time residents they would tell you we would be better of with taking the chip and seal off and just grade the road or in the event that does not happen then drive in the bar ditches as they are better than the “paved” roads. Listen to those who are encouraging you to VOTE NO APRIL 2.

    • Charles Coffman says:

      Come to the council meeting next week. The accountants will be giving the regular update. Ask them what the drainage fee is used for. Agree on he chip and peel, let’s pass the bond and get real roads.

  8. john says:

    If Darrell is voting no, then every elegible voter should consider voting yes. 🙂

  9. JT says:

    Why is that?

    • Darrel Booth says:

      JT

      John is John Mike Simpson who does not even live in Piedmont and was one of the people who has kept the excrement stirred up because he was a major beneficiary of the Williams store coming to Piedmont.He has continued to take issue with other efforts such as the Veteran’s Center and anything else to which Phil Boevers is remotely connected. He is a spoiled little boy that has never grown up. He carries water for some of the people on council and if you ask him he will tell you he was almost solely responsible for the efforts of the election last year. AS for voting you might want to listen more to those who live here as opposed to one who has moved all over and does not reside in the area that will be impacted.

      • john says:

        Darrell, I keep forgetting you don’t have a sense of humor. And why do you keep bringing up Phil Boevers he has nothing to do with this discussion/thread or are you still in the process of carrying his water?

    • john says:

      JT, since Darrell was ranting on about other topics that dont pertain to this upcoming bond election, please call Matt Montgomery at the Gazette as he has my cell phone number as I give him permission to give you my phone number for you to call me and I want to provide the emails that Darrell eluded to on the Veterans Center on my questions and the many defects to the parcel of land and the exact feedback from the city planner to that defective lot. I asked questions that the PAVA organizers would not respond to my questions and concerns. I deal in facts not in fantasy or lies such as some people I know.

      • john says:

        And one more thing Darrell since you have been here since 1976, my Great grandparents settled in Piedmont in 1889 in the infamous land run that we call ourself the Sooner state as a statement to that fact, and yes I do not live here but I do own property here with my family and with that I am stakeholder in this town just like you. I just don’t have a vote on this matter, but if you don’t like Piedmpnt anymore then I welcome you to move back to New Mexico anytime you want too.!

  10. Al Ridgely says:

    So let me get this right,if Darrell is against the bond you would be for it?,what kind of common sense does that make,just show’s how closed minded people are,get the facts and use some common sense,this plan only benefits a few and makes no sense,look at the map and see what roads are being done,no plan there,234th&,Ash only serves a couple of homes,WHO lives there that has so much pull?,!64th from County line west is where the councilman live,no surprise there is it,the roads being done are spread out all over and all have a lot of empty land on them,WHY?,because someone wants to build there sometime soon and they won’t build on the roads that are there now,but we get to pay for them.Darrell is right about the Drainage fee,I have been asking that question for years,and just recently got a yearly income statement as to how much money is collected a year,but nothing about what it has been spent on for the last 16 years,the leaders ask us to trust them andwe have until recently,look how that has worked out,I have lived here 30 years and have been active for most of them with the politic’s,seen everything done that served certain people without regard from the city as a whole,Now is the time to stop this,and let them know that we are not going to take it anymore,spend our money wisely or get out. Al Ridgely

  11. Al Ridgely says:

    OH and I will be at ALL the meetings about this to see how it’s spun,Notice that little in the way has been done until a week before the election,and a lot of people don’t even know about it at all, no surprise there again,maybe they will start thinking ahead sometime soon.

  12. Charles Coffman says:

    Had to use donations for advertising, it is costs that are having this wait until later in the month. No tricks, just budget. Here is the spin… We don’t generate enough to do real roads, they are falling apart. We are over 5000 people so the county will not fix them. There is no regional or grant money. We have a small crew that patches as we can, but the employees do not stay long. We do not have enough to buy equipment and a building to put them in, and if we did we can’t afford the trained crews. We live on the edge if a major metro area that is #1 good because we have land to build on and might gain some businesses soon #2 need to have a police force to protect because we are next to a major metro area #3 we have a population that needs a fire department. There is no fat to cut on the city staff. Oklahoma is the only state that does not give property taxes to cities to help. All the money goes to state, county, and school.

  13. Concerned says:

    Why is the road in front of Vernon Woods house being paved? How does it make logical sense to pave 1/2 mile of a 1 mile section line road? Why can’t the councilmen be transparent about what’s going on? Paying for this with a bond that will increase property taxes doesn’t spread the costs to all users of the roads. If anything Piedmont would be better off just jacking the sales taxes up to 10%. It’s gonna happen anyway so what not just do it now and get the butthurt over? Then dedicate that extra portion of the sales tax to roads. That way everyone that comes into the City of Piedmont and spends money will have a share in the costs of roads.

    • Charles Coffman says:

      No more tax increases or fee increases on the horizon. I would not want that because it would hurt us as a city and I am a citizen too. Best regards

  14. JT says:

    The sales tax is already 9.85%. Granted the city’s take is 5%, while 4.5% goes to the state of Oklahoma and 0.35% goes to Canadian County. If you go buy something that costs a dollar the sales tax is 10 cents, so it is effectively 10%. Are you saying you would like to raise it from 9.85% to 10%?

    I do find it odd that so many of the streets are in front of or so near the councilmen’s residences. Gage lives just right off a portion of Mustang Road that could possibly be redone. Woods lives right next to a portion of Arrowhead that would be redone. Funny thing is it the repaving would stop just past his house at the half mile line. Coffman lives right in front of the mile of 164th that would be redone. Robinson lives just off the portion of Stout that would be redone.

    What was the science or reasoning for choosing these roads? I don’t think our councilmen are corrupt, but this just looks bad. With great power comes great responsibility.

  15. Charles Coffman says:

    Can not speak for th others but my folks asked for 164th as the major feeder into the additions as well as Sara from Edmond to Arrowhead that feeds circle V. 164th is also a bus route for 2 schools. Sorry it looks bad. I hope the city citizens don’t equate us with the state and national representatives, we have no money to waste.

  16. JT says:

    It won’t do anything to fix any of the horrible streets in Rolling Prarie Estates. They are some of the oldest in town outside the original townsite. Sara is just as bad to but it’s not on the ballot. It will only get done if there’s enough money left over. 164th was going to be done outside the bond issue, but Woods saw to it to jam it into the bond issue so as to entice people to vote for it.

    Again how were the streets chosen? They should have been chosen by the ADT. The ones with the highest ADT should get fixed first because those are the ones people drive on the most.

  17. Charles Coffman says:

    I drive around Rolling Prarie Estates, really bad roads. I spoke to several folks last Saturday during the drive through. True about the bond but Mustang rd is one of the roads. This has got to be part of a wider plan. Arterial roads with the bond, city funds for the rest until we can get some business growth and expand to start trading out the chip and peel. The engineer noted that some lighter ( not 5 inches) would work in the additions. That is less than the $900,000 per mile on the main roads so we look at those year by year.

  18. mildly interested says:

    Thank goodness for the Simpson family. They have been willing to set aside the insults and personal attacks year after year.They have been generous, fair , patient and have always been willing to help out the city. At the end of the day they always have come through for more than a generation. There is no doubt that John Mike is both outgoing and outspoken. He is quick to come the the deffense of his family and freinds. That is not a bad character trait. Any suggestion the he has no bonafide interest in the affairs of this community is just plain stupid. I do not believe there is any family that has done more for this community than John Mike and his family. In my 21 years in this community they have recieved little benefit, little recognition and almost no appreciation for their fairness and generousity. I don’t think they have ever expected anything either.
    So far as the road bond issue is concerned. The city council has done the best job possible responding to the stated desires of the citizens. The council got the best proffesional advice available,they negotiated with each other in good faith to represent thier individual wards as well as the community at large. Councilman Woods and Councilman Gleichmann both gave up some to satisfy the needs stated by Councilman Coffman (he got the most for his ward).
    The reality is if you want to live with the inferior roads then you should VOTE NO, if you want to do something to improve them then VOTE YES.
    If you VOTE NO then quit complaining (SHUT UP)
    If you VOTE YES then be prepared to pay your share, and expect the city to stop putting more pressure on roads by allowing devleopment which does not pay for the impact on them.

    • JT says:

      I don’t know what a urinating contest between the Simpsons and other residents has to do with any of this.

      Back to the topic at hand, the bond issue. Councilman Woods convinced the rest of the council to roll 164th street into this bond package when there was already a plan to reconstruct that street with funds from the general fund and a partnership with OKC. He hoped to scare people into voting for the bond so that street would get fixed. Funny how he gave up some except for the half mile of street that goes to his house.

      Sara Road, Mustang Road and the mile of 164th street from Morgan to County Line are not a sure thing. They may fix them if there is enough money left over after the other streets on the ballot are done. I applaud Councilman Coffman for his efforts, but I think Sara and Mustang should have gotten put on the priority list. The plan for 164th should have been left as it is.

      Finally please don’t tell people to shut up and no one “pays” taxes. That is unless you want to pay me the amount of money the government will take from me in additional property taxes. Taxes are taken from you at the point of a gun.

      • Charles Coffman says:

        One thing JT, The portion of 164th that was being discussed as city paid was the area from Piedmont road west in front of the school. OKC would not have been part of that stretch. There was hope to have the eastern portions of 164th done some years ago but it never materialized. I was told that the funds went to bridge repairs around the new schools. I may have missed something more recent, but only the stretch in front of the school has been discussed since I have been on the council. You are correct on Mustang and Sara and the funds but we did vote on them as carrying equal weight with the rest of the bond roads, I am counting on the engineering estimates to get us most if not all of that done.

  19. Al Ridgely says:

    Hey Donnies road was one because of the school,which is always the reason that is given for most everything in this town,the schools that is,WHY are Ash and Moffat on the list to begin with?,Again this is a flawed plan in so many ways with poor planning and little thought for the over-all benefit for the entire town,let’s all go to the meetings and voice this to every councilman not just onePLEASE LOOK AT THE MAPS ON GOOGLE EARTH AND SEE FOR YOURSELVES<only then will you see the true location and whats around these roads to understand.I hope that the maps are shown at the meeting also,but don't think they will be as they tell a clearer picture then driving them. Al Ridgely

  20. Charles Coffman says:

    Al, what roads would you trade those two for. If we do have a maintenance plan that is supported by our engineer, and we show where the grader has started doing drainage work what is left on your objection. We have the design done by an engineer, we have been working on this since July, are having open meetings to the public to discuss, and have hired the best bond firms in the region. We have not flooded the city with materials because of cost, but did post the meetings on the effort since last summer for all to come. I am not being snide, I really want to know what else we could do to show this is a transparent and good effort. We tried not to do too many just in the inner city, we considered school routes and traffic flows, and we gave each councilman the opportunity to present roads. There was no forcing one to accept, something that has been rare for a long time. What could we do better. Best regards

    • Al Ridgely says:

      Charles w have spoke of this before,what roads serve most everone in Piedmont?,well let’s start with Piedmont rd.from Edmond to 192th,one dead,flooding all the time,goes right thru Piedmont,not even spoken about in the bond,no traffic count was ever done before the bond issue was talked about,as for 164th from county line west,I drove it last night and counted 12 homes on the 2 miles of road,fair to say it’s bad but there are many more that need repair,if we are worrying about future people on these roads,let the builders do those roads before they build a house on them,as for the grader,I have ask again and again where they are doing work,no answer as usual,do we have someone running it?,where is it working and is it doing drainage work or road grading?,why has there been no plan before this for a street dept,we have more than enough work for a full time crew,but we keep hiring public works people and then firing them,last week I spoke to a crew worker I didn’t know and was told they just fired 2 more,and then they only had 3 people to do all the work,we have had enough of bad planning and too much talk about what should be done,now we want to see some action,not just words,this bond needs to be dropped and a new plan put out with more imput from the people and not just the councilmen,we will never please everyone,I didn’t ask for my road to be done,and it’s as important to me as all the rest,and I don’t like paying for something that doesn’t help me at all,not one road on the bond list is a road I had ever driven in 30 years,had to look most of them up to know where they were and then drove them to see why they were so important,has many people even done that,doubtful,looked at the over-head maps to see what was around these roads and saw a lot of open fields,and wondered why this was important,I am not worried about people wanting to move here or future building,they will not be paying the bill as we who have been here have been doing foe a long time,take care of the people who live in this now and worry about the others later,Note that you buildt a house on a bad road and now you want it fixed,that is so common,I bought my house and paid to have the road done out of pocket when it was needed,maybe that should be done again,I just know deep down that this is NOT a good move at this time. Al Ridgely

      • Charles Coffman says:

        Time for one more…. Thanks for letting me know the objection. If you drive 164 you are correct on the small number of homes on the side of the road. The deal is that the thousands of cars a day that use the road to go to work and back… And those that go down Morgan to the school in the morning and then back to he school in the afternoon. If you check it from 2:30 to 6:00 you will see the return crowd. Rolling Hills, East Wind, Emerald and Cyotee additions are fed by them and that is a huge portion of the population. Sara from Edmond to Arrow Head also ony has a few houses on it but feeds both Circle V neighborhoods. It is not the houses on the side of the road, it is what it feeds into. Many take the turnpike and expressway home and take Morgan road to Piedmont. They have to go a long way around… To lake Hefner parkway or county line to get to Edmond road.

        • JT says:

          Charles,

          I would ask that you please get it on the agenda to do some traffic counts around town. You know the little rubber hoses they put across the road. You say there are thousands, but that is at best an educated guess. It wouldn’t cost all that much money to get the actual numbers for various streets around town.

          • Charles Coffman says:

            JT, Ibshould have said thousand or so, not thousands. OKC did a count last summer (school was out) but I did not see the count. I think it was on the east side of Morgan. That would be a good idea but next to Piedmont Road and Edmond Rd, it is the next highest feeder into town. I know a lot of folks did not notice the impact the turnpike exit and new school on Morgan road had on the traffic in the last several years.

  21. Concerned says:

    The repaving of the 1/2 mile of Arrowhead that is in front of Councilman Vernon Woods house needs to be stripped from the bond issue. There are other more heavily used streets that need rebuilt before this one. This smacks of nothing but politically cronyism.

  22. john says:

    Concerned, it appears that way but you may want to talk to the people who live in that subdivision that dumps out on that road as those people will have to pony up too for that road. There is quite a few people who use that section of road.

    • JT says:

      That subdivision also connects to Piedmont Road. I count maybe 35 houses that are closer to Arrowhead than Piedmont Rd. The problem is we don’t know how many people use that road every day because the city hasn’t done a proper traffic count on any of its streets. They have no idea what the most heavily traveled roads are in town, except what the streets they “think” have the most traffic.

  23. Concerned says:

    What about all the other people in all the other additions that aren’t getting their roads fixed? So now it appears that if you want to get your little patch of road fixed then all you have to do is get enough votes to get elected to the city council.

    • Charles Coffman says:

      Easier said than done :). We chose arterial roads, I picked the ones that feed the major additions and are school routes. The ambulances also use 164th. We did go through several months of discussions on the roads so it was not an easy decision. I was fresh off the election so I had just had a good understanding of what roads were on the citizens minds, I wish we had enough to do Arrowhead and Morgan. My hope is that having a bond work the arterial roads will free up city funds to get to the other roads. We have started doing drainage city wide with the grader. We are trying to get more folks on the street crew.

  24. john says:

    Then maybe you should ask all the past city council members ….why they allowed for the impact fees to be waived on home developers to line their pockets of the home developers when those fees should have been collected at that time to build those streets that surroundd those developments. That is the crux of the problem this city allowed the real estate developers and home builders to run the town in a ditch. We are just now trying to get out of that ditch.

    • Concerned says:

      What happened in the past we can’t do anything about. That’s over and done with. What we can do is demand that our elected city officials be above board and honest. The blatant croynism has to stop. I’m voting against this bond issue and encouraging everyone I know to do the same. We need our roads fixed but not in this manner. If you wanna reward these underhanded city councilmen then buy them a plaque and bucket of peanuts. I’m not in favor of increasing my property taxes for the next 20 years just so they can have a paved road in front of their houses while the rest of us put up potholes……

      • Charles Coffman says:

        It is a ten year bond. Fine if you don’t want to vote for it but no one on this council has or will profit from the bond or any other of the actions of the city. You might be thinking of state and federal groups. Cronyism means getting your friends a piece of he pie, the current council does not have any connections or anything to gain from being on the council….we just want to fix things. If you want above board then you need to come to the meetings. We had met many times on this over several months and you can always call me or email me. As Al, if he asks for info i get it for him. And I call in all the pot holes in my ward because I drive the roads every week to see how they are doing. It takes a while some times for the crews to get there. It is fine to just say you don’t want to pay for the roads, it is a bit much to say it is somehow a result of underhanded business… This is not Chicago. Come by and say hello at the meeting, I will tell you anything you want to know.

        • Al Ridgely says:

          Charles has done a fine job of geting me imformation as he has said,and I thank him for that,and I agree somewhat that the councilmen don’t usually get much for their work,but that is few and fwr apart in this case,I have listened at every council meeting,yes I do go to them more than mostbecause I want to know what is being done in the city I live in,I care about this city not because it will get me something,as I have said before they(the city) gannot fix or mess-up much to effect my life other than take my money for little to no serve over the last 30 years,I have listened to the leaders so long telling me what is going to be done and not seeing it happen that trust in the leadership is very low,many people also feel this way also,most people don’t come to meetings and have little interest in how our money is used,that is a major factor in why we are in the shape we are in,unless it effects them directly they don’t care,I do.again Charles has done his job in that regard,but what I don’t see is the thinking that this bond as it stands will help everyone,it’s not a good plan,it will hurt our future money plans for everyone,because there will be no money for a least 10 years to do anymore roads,and there is no REAL plan to get a STREET DEPT.,I have heard this over and over again,but still it doesn’t happen,we spend money for things that are not needed,we have in the past spent money on a police station that went 50% over the amount recieved from the grant,when will they come at us for more(like the union thing),why are we putting so much into the fire dept,there are as many or more firemen than street workers,and this will grow with every turn of the road,what we need and what we get are two different things in this town,Roads have been the number one issue since I moved here and the leaders keep telling us they will fix it,yet it never happens,We have trusted too many people in the past and look where that got us,I had high hopes for this council,still do,but so far all I’ve heard is talk,it is a shame that we are subject to poor planning over and over,but I dlame that mostly on the citzens for not being involved. There are many ways to improve our roads and city,but when you have councilmen who want to bulldoze what they want into the mix,it makes things hard to accept,if Ash,Moffett were main roads they would be done,so would many others,but the plan is to spread out the work and benefit few,and again we will not be able to maintain them with no street dept,we can’t keep people working here in order to have enough to do what there is now,I have been hearing of a street dept for years,a joke at best,when we have more cops,firemen and city staff each than street crew workers,think about how much work would get done if we had 10-15 people working on roads everyday instead of sitting in a car,riding around,sitting in the fire station or riding around,or sitting in city hall,do the numbers and ask WHY?,I just know that this “plan”is poor and that there is other means to get this done,but the leaders have little leadership,and little to no planning,Thank You Charles I will be at ALL the meetings next week.Done with this for now,see you then. Al Ridgely

  25. mildly interested says:

    SHUT UP may have been a bit harsh….however constant complaining about a problem but not being willing to correct it is STUPID. Everyone usually has to pay their share there is no FREE LUNCH

  26. john says:

    JT and Concerned, Darrel Booth served on the city council a few years ago maybe he can elaborate more to this since I never served on the council. Ask him those questions on impact fees and home developers paying for those infrastructure needs.

  27. Charles Coffman says:

    I hope everyone has a good weekend. I am going to bail on the blog and will see you at the meetings. I hope everyone will take some time and drive the roads on the list. Consider what the options are for the city. We can’t keep filling in the pot holes, there comes a point it doesn’t work… Drive Sara from Edmond to Arrowhead to see what happens. Even if we have ten people full time it can only go on so long. We have a new City Manager, Police Chief, Engineer, City Attorney, Planning Director, and most the council is new. It really is a new attitude up there and we are trying to fix things. Some of the problems of the past have resulted in the situation we have now. Let’s work together on ways to fix them. I see the bond as a good option to move us ahead. There is a saying ” to do nothing is to do something”. I just hope everyone understands that doing nothing means the roads will get worse because repairs don’t last on chip and peel. Best regards

  28. Concerned says:

    Looks like a recall petition has been filed against Woods. Maybe people got fed up with his shenanigans over this bond issue. Having the street repaved in front of his house with the “peoples” money is absurd. Hopefully more of these city councilmen that have been involved in this “nest feathering” will get the boot too.

  29. Charles name given Coffman says:

    Sorry you were not informed about the roads and the process involved in choosing them. If you come to the meetings tonight, Wednesday and Thursday we can explain how they were chosen. Some roads are feeders even if the houses are not on the road itself. Piedmont is a commuter town.

  30. JT says:

    I will be there Wednesday night at 6:30.

  31. Al Ridgely says:

    After attending ALL the meetings this week,I still don’t know why certain roads(ASH and Moffett) were chosen,there are only 6 house’s each on these roads,they don’t have a big impact on traffic and they are costing us 1.5 million dollars or 25% of the bond. We are going to increase our tax’s by 13% for little to nothing,benefiting a few,but we all get to pay for it.Everyone did a good job of explaining the plan but failed to answer this question,I only heard one person say he was willing to pay more tax’s because he lives on 192nd,A big deal was made over 164th which is going to be done even if the the bond fails,Why was this shoved down our thoaths to begin with?,I hope that people vote next Tuesday and let the leaders know that there is another way to do this and to make a better plan to improve ours roads everywhere.I didn’t move here because of the roads or the school,I moved here to live in a quiet rural city without the mess of big city life,the leaders want to make Piedmont like Edmond or OKC,let’s stop some of this now,All we want is a fair deal for ALL of THE PEOPLE,no just a few.PLEASE VOTE NO NEXT TUESDAY. Al Ridgely

    • Vernon Woods says:

      Al, I’m aware of the perils of suggesting that you might possibly be wrong, but ‘you are wrong’.

      Ash (228th):
      Ash between Piedmont and Mustang 8 homes
      Ash between Mustang and Sarah 20 homes
      North Ridge 13 homes plus some under construction
      Heritage 7 homes plus some under construction
      A total of 48 homes

      Moffat (234th):
      Moffat between Piedmont and Cemetery 4 homes
      Moffat between Cemetery and Frisco 8 homes
      Rock Cliff Way 12 homes
      Rock Cliff Cir 6 homes
      Log Cabin Road 6 homes
      Hammond Road 5 homes
      High Meadows Lane 18 homes
      A total of 59 homes

      This is a LONG way from ‘6 homes each’.

      Vote how you want, but get your facts straight.

      • JT says:

        Vernon I’ve read everything that’s been put out on both sides of this issue. This is the first I’ve heard that Moffat was being repaved all the way from Piedmont Road to Frisco Road. Same thing with Ash. Are you saying it will be repaved all the way from Piedmont Road to Sara(not Sarah) Road?

        When was this change made and who authorized it?

        • Vernon Woods says:

          Just saying how many residents will use the new road. It’s not complicated, and it is correct.

  32. JT says:

    Hey Al I was there on Wednesday, the guy who came in a little late wearing the white hat sitting in the front row. I heard Mr. Coffman explain about why 164th was being repaved from Sara to Morgan, and it made sense. He said he couldn’t speak for the other councilmen though. So what did Mr. Woods say when he was asked about the road to his house being repaved?

    The proper way to determine the roads would be to determine which ones have the highest daily traffic and fix those first. Determining the traffic counts is fairly simple, I don’t understand why the city council doesn’t commission Triad (the city engineer) to do it. Once or maybe twice a year would be good. Then you would have a historical record to look at and determine which streets are seeing more, less or the same amount of traffic. It’s a great way to prioritize limited dollars.

  33. Al Ridgely says:

    Hey JT,I was at ALL the meetings,front row,as Mr Woods wrote about the number of homes in those area’s,I am only interested in the fact that 25% or 1.5 million dollars was or is going to be spent on these roads,Moffett and Ash are only(if passed) being done for one mile each,not two miles as Woods counted.I won’t even go into this with him,As for the traffic count,it was never done,so it is just a guess as to what roads really count,your suggestion is the same as what I suggested before.As to 192nd,there was some talk about it at the meeting and all I’ll say is if you want that answer get in touch with Mr. Woods not me,we don’t see eye to eye and he doesn’t even say Hello when we are in the same room,I feel he only represents those he likes and the rest are of no meaning to him.I have watched many meetings and can’t recall how many times he has said”I don’t understand or I’m confused”,this after a subject was made clear to everyone in the room but him,has taken up a lot of time in our meetings and try’s to over-talk anyone he doesn’t agree with or doesn’t agree with him,I had dealings with him on the Trialer commitee,same thing,and I just laugh at what he does,as do many others,ask around and see what I’m talking about or come to the meetings and see for yourself.besides I think he has bigger problems ahead which I am not a part of,or have an opinion about until more comes to light in the future.. Al Ridgely

  34. Charles Coffman says:

    JT, glad you made the meeting. I hope you drive up Sara between Edmond Rd and Arrowhead road. Those folks in Circle V are having a rough time of it. We will see how this all goes. One thing we have not talked much about is the interest rates. It seemed to be a good time to go with a bond because of the rates, in a year or two maybe not so much. Too bad we could not get the maintenance plan out earlier. If the measure failes and we came back later with a small bond of say $2M it will only go to the two roads in front of the school. I suspect that would not pass either.

  35. JT says:

    Yes I have friends that live in Circle V. I agree that portion of Sara is total garbage. I live just off Mustang Road between 164 and 178 and that portion of Mustang is not much better. I go back and forth on if I’ll vote for this or not. I will say this though; I think you are the most professional acting of the city councilmen and you are doing a good job.

  36. Al Ridgely says:

    As a friend I wish Charles well monday with his medical problem,will all of us do the same,when someone needs help,it’s there for the asking It just goes to show that even when people dis-agree they can still be friends.Good Luck Charles

  37. Charles Coffman says:

    Thank you Al, I will let you know how it goes. Maybe I will able to arm wrestle you by mid summer. Congrats on your good news by the way.

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